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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2013 : 01:06:43
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To this point, I've been running the Kato P42 as sole power, pulling a non-powered Athearn P42 and nine cars. Realizing my comparison of the new Katos to the Athearn P42s wasn't completely fair, since I run the Athearns in pairs, I picked up a second Kato P42. I now have AMTK 161, along with AMTK 68. Just got the 161 today (Saturday, September 14th), and I am MU-ing it with AMTK 68. I've run the two together, pulling the same 9-car train (and NO de-motored Athearn unit), and have run it for about an hour, so far. I like it. So far, so good.
Starts and stops are really nice now, with two units. Acceleration and deceleration are much better, though there's still a bit of surge accelerating. Deceleration is great. No signs of the engines not matching speed, nor have I seen any signs of motors overheating.
These engines look really good paired up, and their ride height to the baggage car looks right on.
I don't like the couplers. Shanks are awfully long, but I understand why they are that length. (Probably to accommodate those really tight radii.) I haven't tried to change the couplers yet, since I'm still testing these engines. At least, the couplers work. Nothing's come uncoupled yet.
More running later this evening. I'm encouraged. Question now is whether or not they'll run consistently over the long haul.
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Edited by - swchief3 on 09/21/2013 04:07:56 |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2013 : 04:02:50
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Running is still good this evening, overall. AMTK 161 is surging and lagging as it breaks in, same as AMTK 68 did when it was new. The 161 is leading. It was nice to be able to turn off AMTK 68's running lights, as it trails the 161. That's a neat feature!
The lead axle on AMTK 68's lead truck seems to have developed a pickup issue. I don't know enough about this mechanism yet to start fooling around with it, though. I'll watch it, to see what happens.
As I mentioned over in the other thread, these engines really foul the tracks with crud, so you'll have to clean the tracks religiously... and often.
I am still pretty happy with the way things are going. |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 05:32:11
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Turned the train around tonight, and flipped the engines around, so my new AMTK 161 is now trailing, and the week-old AMTK 68 is leading. Less surging tonight than last night; AMTK 161 seems to be breaking in.
In switching the units around, I changed the light configurations. Turned on AMTK 68's lights, and turned the 161's lights off. In so doing, I found that the plastic screwdriver Kato includes with each engine does not hold up very well. The blade twisted and went lame after maybe three uses total. Better off changing the GPS/light toggle with a jeweler's screwdriver, regular blade.
MU-ing is still good. I don't think I've ever had two locomotives match as well as these two P42s seem to be doing. I'm not seeing any tugging or pushing.
These engines are still getting the tracks quite dirty. These engines are extremely heavy, though, so the added weight may be a factor in the gunk being ground into the rails. (Maybe?)
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2013 : 16:35:13
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Got up early this morning (Monday, September 16th) and finished the run I was doing last night. The engines ran horribly this morning. Lagging and surging were much worse than last night, and running at cruising speed was inconsistent, at best. Throttle control was not good.
These Katos have got to go. They've got some really nice features that the Athearn units don't have, but, bottom line, I don't like the Katos' running characteristics. The coreless motors' performance is inconsistent, and this inconsistency is a distraction. Really spoils the experience, and negates all the good points.
When my LHS opens later this morning, I'll be heading over there with these engines to have him sell them for me. EDIT: They are now up for sale.
I applaud Kato for stepping up to the plate and doing the P42. However, I wish they'd just used the motor and drive combination that they use currently in the F40PH.
Again, these are my experiences and opinion only. Your mileage may vary.  I'm not affiliated with Kato, Athearn, or any other model railroad company. I'm just an average guy who likes to run Amtrak trains. And, since I hadn't seen any extensive user reviews on this new P42, I figured I'd just document my own experiences, and share them.
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Edited by - swchief3 on 09/16/2013 21:25:53 |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2013 : 04:11:29
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Here we go, again. Due to multiple failures with my Athearn units, I was forced to rethink my decision to put the Katos up for sale. Fortunately, they hadn't sold yet, so I was able to get them back today, and I'm running them now. Running very smoothly and trouble-free at this time.
Seems that these things run like garbage until they're broken in. |
Edited by - swchief3 on 09/21/2013 04:12:54 |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2013 : 05:00:50
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Fairly smooth running these last few days, until tonight (Wednesday, September 25th). AMTK 161 started running erratically again. After looking at photos of the flywheel/worm gear mechanism, I carefully opened up the trucks. (Scared to death I was going to break something, of course.  ) Looked at the 161's lead-truck worm gear, and found it to have thick-looking factory lube (i.e., paste) on it. Carefully wiped off as much as I could, and then relubed... LIGHTLY. I also lubed the flywheel bearing... LIGHTLY. Did the same on the 161's rear truck, and did both trucks on the 68. Both units tested smoother than ever, both pulling the train solo and teamed up.
I will run for awhile longer tonight, to see what happens. I went ahead and lubed the worms and flywheel shafts, based on the good results I've gotten with many of my other engines, and also with the realization that the lube points are nowhere near the motors.
We'll see how it goes... |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2013 : 04:56:58
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The lube has done WONDERS for these engines. They are very smooth now, and they're running like a dream. Went ahead and got the third unit, AMTK 188. Received it today (Thursday, October 3rd), and I've got it running lead, with AMTK 161 trailing. Opened up AMTK 188's trucks upon arrival, wiped out the factory lube, and relubed with the Woodland Scenics lube I've been using on my other engines. The 188 is running smoothly on its maiden voyage, and is not acting weird, like the other two did. The 188 runs as if it's already broken in.
These things are really growing on me. I love being able to turn the running lights on and off, and it's neat to be able to pop the trucks out when necessary.
I have yet to see any signs of the motors overheating. It takes specific situations to make them overheat. (Don't go over 12v, don't try to run these DC units on DCC, and cut the power immediately if the things derail, and you'll be fine.) I run these things at sustained high speed, up to 90mph (scale), and the motors are absolutely unphased.
Motor matching has yet to be an issue. I've been doing some reading about brushless/coreless motors, and what I've read has eased my mind about the twin motors not getting along. My understanding of... and description of... the operating mechanism will be very primitive, but here goes. Standard motors, be they can or open-frame, are speed-controlled from the brush and commutator interface, via input from the power pack. The coreless motors have no commutator or brushes, so they have to be regulated by synchronization to another source, and have to be "told" how fast to spin. With these Katos, I'm figuring that the twin motors are speed-controlled by the circuitry in the PC board. As I say, my description and understanding of this whole mechanism and concept are extremely primitive, and I may not even be articulating any of this right, but this seems to be the basic idea of the whole set-up.
Along with each unit's twin motors matching perfectly, the unit-to-unit matching is near perfect, as well. I've never had multiple units match so well as these Kato P42s. It's amazing.
I've been running the new engine for the last hour or so, as well as having run it for awhile earlier this afternoon, and it's been running like a charm.
My biggest complaint right now is that I wish Kato had blacked out the grilles, like on the prototype. The carbody does look a little bland at times, with body-color grilles. Otherwise, the visuals on these things are really nice.
I'm really happy I went ahead and got these things. I am gradually phasing out my Athearn P40/42 fleet. It's a process. I'm still tempted, sometimes, to go back to them, but then I remember how often they fail on the road. I have yet to have a road failure with these Katos. I have yet to have any parts fall off, as well.
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2013 : 04:16:11
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Very disappointed this evening (Saturday, October 5th). The engines are surging and lagging wildly again, so the lube did not fix the problem. The engines are running very inconsistently, and all are intermittently losing speed. Additionally, they continue to soil the tracks... badly. Excessively.
I pulled out a couple Athearn units to replace the two Katos I had running, and they do not surge or lag, nor do they slow down in the place where the Katos were losing power.
Doesn't look like these Katos are any more reliable than the Athearns, given the power issues I'm having tonight. I am extremely disappointed. Going back over everything I've posted to date, it looks like this is going to be the pattern for these things, i.e., they'll run fine for awhile, and then they'll just go nuts on you.
These things are supposed to be "better" than the Athearns, but, if the Katos run this inconsistently, then that, to me, is not "better". It's just trading one set of problems for another.
Sigh.  |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2013 : 05:35:15
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Engines are running much better tonight (Sunday, October 6th). I have no idea what happened. I did wet-wipe the tracks with alcohol, and that probably did make for some sludge on the rails, but I've wet-wiped before without the engines showing out as badly as they did. Dry-wiping really is better, I guess.
Also, I looked at the trucks on all three units, to see how much contact the vertical fin on the wheel wipers was making with the contact bars. I saw some scratching on the bars themselves, so it made me think the fin/tab was rubbing up against the plastic housing, since the scratches were very close to the housing. I bent the tabs in just slightly, and immediately the trucks swung with less resistance. Don't know whether or not that tweak really changed anything.
Anyway, the engines are back to the smooth, trouble-free running I'd had before yesterday. Hopefully, there won't be any more quirks.
BTW, my first unit, AMTK 68, is now one month old. Time flies... |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2013 : 04:03:47
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More quirking tonight (Monday, October 7th). The engines are starting to stutter and stall again on junction points at low speeds. These engines are very unforgiving. Just the slightest track imperfection, or just the slightest granule of dirt, and these engines will have a temper tantrum! More worrisome, though, is that these engines are starting to make clicking noises going around curves at low speeds. I read on another forum that someone else's Kato P42s were developing what that person called "wheel chatter" around curves.
I think these Katos' days on my layout are numbered. I'm getting tired of all these problems. These things cost too much to be this temperamental. |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2013 : 05:01:19
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| No, the Katos are staying put, account more failures with the Athearns. And, the clicking sound I thought I was hearing from the Kato trucks was actually coming from the roadbed. (Whew!) |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 05:03:02
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Here we are in November... already. I haven't posted in awhile, because real life intervened... several times. During those real-life interventions, I did manage to run some trains, though. I parked the Kato P42s for a little while, to see how they'd run after sitting idle, and they ran great. In fact, I couldn't wait to get them back on the road.
In the interim, I ran a couple of my Atlas Dash-8s, two of my three Kato F40s, and a couple of Athearn P40s. It took awhile to get used to their throttle response, as it takes lots more throttle to run these other units than it does the Kato P42s. The Dash-8s ran fine. The Kato F40s ran only fair. I've had considerable trouble with squeaky wheels on those things, and it gets really annoying after awhile. Also, those F40s don't always MU well, or consistently. The running with the Athearn P40s was the most telling. The running was not all that smooth, and there was the constant threat of a sludged commutator, arcing on the commutator, sludged brushes, a thrown drive shaft, a motor bearing binding up, etc. I put the Kato P42s back on, and the running was immediate bliss.
The Kato P42s have really smoothed out, and their overall throttle response is much better than when they were new. Their power is unbelievable. And, the longer I look at these engines, the more accurate they look. Speaking for myself only, I didn't give much credit to these engines when they first came out, especially in the looks department, because they looked odd. The reason they looked odd was because they are actually right on more things than the Athearn. Plus, we've only had the Athearns to look at these last ten years or so (excepting brass), so the Athearns' dimensions are the ones we're used to seeing. I've spent a lot of time looking at photos, and the Kato is pretty true. They didn't get EVERYTHING right, but they have more right than I originally gave them credit for.
1. Ride height. Kato wins. The Athearn does sit a little too high.
2. Nose. Kato wins. The Athearn nose is too squared at the bottom, around the headlight area.
3. Windshield. Kato wins. The Kato window panes are a little too big, but the windshield is where it should be. The Athearn windshield is too high, which skews the nose.
4. Truck sideframes. Athearn wins. The Kato sideframes are out of proportion, but they are secure and will not break off.
5. Ladders. Neither wins. Kato ladders are a bit big, and the Athearn ladders are too small. Plus, the Athearn ladders break off easily. The Kato ladders are attached from inside the carbody, which makes them less prone to breaking off.
6. Couplers. Athearn wins. Kato housing makes the couplers sit way out from the body, and the Kato factory couplers are rather weak.
7. Coupler housing. Kato wins. The housing snaps out very easily for coupler replacement.
8. Headlights. Kato wins, hands down. The Kato LEDs are great. The Athearn lights are nice, but they burn out prematurely, and are a pain in the neck to fit into those sockets, if they have to be replaced.
9. Plow. Athearn wins. The Kato plow is screwy looking.
10. Rear pilot. Athearn wins. The Kato pilot is too high.
The Katos are running well, and are running consistently well. They are still soiling the tracks, but are not doing so any more than my other equipment. I've noticed that the Katos' wheels do not spark when dirty. I have yet to see them do this, unlike the Kato F40s, the Atlas Dash-8s (which were particularly bad), or the Athearn P40/42s.
These Kato P42s have proven to be nice engines, and they are very reliable. I have yet to have a serious failure with them, other than stuttering on dirty track at creep speed. No drive issues. No sparking wheels. No squeaky wheels. No trouble with motors not matching. No trouble MU-ing. Still no signs of motors overheating. No parts breaking off.
I am counting the days until the Heritage units hit the streets. I hope Kato will follow through and do all the Heritage units, as well as releasing some units in phases III and IV... with the realization they'd have to alter the nose and headlight housing.
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 21:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by swchief3
I am counting the days until the Heritage units hit the streets. I hope Kato will follow through and do all the Heritage units, as well as releasing some units in phases III and IV... with the realization they'd have to alter the nose and headlight housing.
Holy smokes! Ask, and ye shall receive! Kato just posted this today (Friday, November 8th). Heritage units are coming! AMTK 66 will be first out, with the AMTK 156 to follow in December, and the other two in March.
http://www.katousa.com/HO/P42/index.html
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Edited by - swchief3 on 11/08/2013 21:59:43 |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 00:47:25
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Just when I thought things were going well enough to start converting to Kato, problems arose. The same problems. One engine is surging and lagging again, and it's the AMTK 68, the same one I've had trouble with before. The tracks are clean, and the wheels are extra clean, but the problem persists. This unit still hunts out track imperfections, and then quirks or stalls, depending on speed. And, once again, it's running inconsistently.
I can't see any obvious problems with the trucks. The wheel wipers look fine. The wheels aren't making contact anywhere they shouldn't, e.g., rubbing up against part of the frame, so I have no idea what's wrong. The only way I can see to fix this issue is to replace the trucks and, at $50.00 each, that idea does not make me happy. What makes me even less happy is that, of the three engines I have, one is consistently weird. One out of three is not a good average. (That's about a "D" average, isn't it?)
Given what's happened, I took the Kato P42s off, and put two Athearn P42s on in their place, and the Athearns are running just fine. So, I'm back to wondering if abandoning Athearn, failures and all, would be a huge mistake.
These Katos should not be having electrical pickup issues. Given the problems I've had with the 68, I wonder if I'm eventually going to have similar trouble with the 161 and 188. How reliable are these things REALLY going to be in the long term?
I will check the warranty on these things. AMTK 68 may be headed to Schaumburg for some TLC, provided Kato HQ doesn't charge me a fortune to fix the thing.
EDIT: Just checked the warranty. Standard warranty is 60 days, and I got the thing on September 6th. So, no trip to Schaumburg. No dice. I either run the thing the way it is, or buy new trucks, at $50.00 a shot. Or, just park the thing. Wow. 
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Edited by - swchief3 on 11/10/2013 00:59:28 |
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swchief3
Passenger
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 04:46:28
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AMTK 68 is fine tonight (Sunday, November 10th). Don't know what happened the other night. The Athearns got worse as I ran them, so I'm very glad to get the Katos back on.
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Kato HO P42 Review, cont., w/MU tests... resumed.
